Fingerprint Society

[Taggart]

I visited the Society website this afternoon, and wonder if anyone can update me. I am assuming the website still has to be updated but I see it says on the home page that the April Journal has been distibuted. April!

http://www.fpsociety.org.uk/

Can any member confirm the July 2009 edition has been distributed to members and when they recieved the edition.

Thanks

[digit]

Can't help you there, I left a few years ago, and most people I know left in disgust last year, in protest at sticking McBride on as editor.

[charlton97]

I have enquired myself and understand that there is 'a difficulty at the printers' and that it should be out any day....though that was two weeks ago. In truth I have no idea when it will be out and wonder when it will finally be published. I share your frustrations as a former editor of this journal and hope to see it agin soon one day!!

[Taggart]

Thanks digit. I am thinking that someone is going to come back and let me know the July edition was circulated on time and the website will be update accordingly.
If however it turns out this isn't the case, perhaps the fact that the editor has been attending the Inquiry daily might account for a delay?
I am interested also that so many people may have left the Society in the last year.
Perhaps some one from the Society will come on and give us the number of current members, and to show the Society is not struggling perhaps give us the figures for the last two years?
I will perhaps suggest that whatever the current numbers are will drop drastically after the forthcoming appearance of the Chairman and the Editor at the Fingerprint Inquiry?

Dave, just saw your update as I went to post. A difficulty at the printers? Amazing. So the July edition has still to be circulated! Wow!
Thanks for that Dave. I wonder exactly when it went to the printers and what the delay was? In any case Dave I am disppointed that the Society appears to be struggling so badly.

Just out of curiousity Dave did you enquire directly with the printers or with the Editor? Might be worth getting your information independently checked for accuracy.

Perhaps the genuine concerns of so many should have been heeded by so few last year and things might not be in the state they appear to be in now.

[Daktari]

Good to see the old pals act getting together again.
A few days before the Inquiry resumes
What a co-incidence!
All we need now is for the naked rambler to join in
(or maybe he already has!)

[charlton97]

Dak,

I hope you don't suggest me in terms of the so called old pals act....I don't even know who Digit is, let alone Taggert......all I did was respond to a polite enquiry about thye journal...which is...after all..very very late indeed. I have no idea what is supposed to be going on behind closed doors...all I know is that as a Society member I am getting alot of feedback from UK members who are beginning to ask very serious questions about the value of remaining in Society at this time...let alone the politics...fact is many are suggesting to me that without a reliable journal it is lacking drawing power when there is so much more that could be done with a few pounds when money is tight. Like I said, I hope the journal can resume its place as a top drawer document..but at the moment it is unreliable and that is a problem.

[Daktari]

As you say Dave You're just an innocent bystander only too willing to help;

Like many, I feel that the position of editor carries a responsibility and gravitas that requires respect. Many already know my views on this appointment and this of course led to my resignation from the committee two years ago. Those of you who thought that an AGM would stop this appointment probably thought that AGMs are vocal arenas where much debate is had. I have never seen such a debate in the Fingerprint Society. Usually only a handful of people ever turn up, it is held in morning before the event proper starts and like all AGMs in all walks of life that I have witnessed, many present will usually vote en block just so they can get back to the bar for drinks. That is the way of AGM democracy.

I will leave others to decide whether it is right to appoint someone who is so pivotal to the whole McKie saga. I personally thought it was a mistake two years ago. I cannot change my feelings on that. But let me be clear. My concerns were not around her involvement in the McKie case as such, I will let other bodies and hearings decide whether Fiona requires sanction. But for the Society it was a move that I personally felt would lead to finger pointing at the Society, result in resignations from both the committee and the membership, and would lead to a diminished respect for the Society as a whole. I see from postings that some are already considering resigning, and that is sad. I also note that there are new vacancies on the committee...again, that is sad. My views on this appointment are that it is not even the appointment as such that is the problem, more where is the copy going to come from to maintain the journal as a primary leader in fingerprint science. I hope it will flourish. But will an editor outside of the police service have access to good copy? Have access to contacts?? For sure, there will be plenty from within who will want to contribute. But my experience as editor was that most of the copy came from the editor's own contacts and networking. Will the current editor be in a position to provide such a facility?

I want the journal to succeed. I want the Society to grow and gain respect. I cannot pretend that I am delighted by this appointment, but we are where we are. There is an undertaking that the journal will be peer reviewed to prevent the journal being used as a propaganda machine. I take that at face value as I know that there will be respected assistant editors around the globe, incuding the US who will assist in keeping the journal on a purely scientific basis hopefully. Those assistants may well provide some of the copy, who knows, even though I have just said that much of the copy comes from the editor in chief.

The AGM rarely has more than 30 attendees, if that. Given the wider membership who can never get to conference, one can hardly call the AGM a blistering endorsement of society policy. I suspect that the membership will decide for themselves through seeing the journal, as well as their own core beliefs, whether they think this is a good thing. They will ultimately vote with the pocket books, by either staying within the society, or leaving. That is their choice and is the most democratic vote I know of. That said, I think many on this forum overestimate the strength of feeling of experts not involved in the McKie case. I have reported over many years the overall apathy of fingerprint experts. Things are no different now.

I will assess the journal over the coming year and will decide for myself whether the promises of the Chairman are well founded. If the journal maintains it's objectivity and scientific ideals then I guess the other politics will play themselves out in other domains. I will leave it to others to decide whether this appointment is damaging to the reputation of the Society as a whole. But clearly the fact that this appointment has raised so many comments is indicative of the potential here for great embarrassment to the society. I hope it will not be problematic to Society...but I fear it will be.

charlton97

[charlton97]

I stand by every word....your point?

These quotes of mine were made some time ago, but they are still valid. I see no reason to take a different stance at this time. The journal is losing respect from the community because it is seen as unreliable in its content and publication time. There are others who have told me they see no point in remaining in the Society if there is no reliable journal.

The Society and its members have been very good to me over the years and I even received a services to the society award at this year's conference, which was both touching and an honour. I have no agenda to do the Society down. In fact I am the Society's biggest fan and it is only because I care about the Society so much that I hate to see one of the pivotal marketing tools of the society, namely the journal, get bad press from other members. This must be addressed. Yes, I thought Fiona's appointmenmt would be problematic, and yes, I thought the appointment would be a long term problem for the society. I hope I am wrong...but I fear I am not.

[Taggart]

Dave,

The sheer paranoia of certain individuals once gain shines through!

I believe I was asking a perfectly legitimate question regarding the publication of the Fingerprint Society journal. No hidden agendas, just natural curiosity.

Suddenly we are all involved in a conspiracy! Sound familiar?

I suspect you and Dr Dror are going to have a field day reading the forthcoming evidence for your studies.

Since daktari so kindly mentioned the forthcoming Inquiry, I’ll post an update soon on what and who we should all be paying particular attention to.

Cheers

[Daktari]

I don't even know who Digit is, let alone Taggert......

Perhaps I can help;

Digit is probably Robert Doik, who spoke against Fiona's appointment as you well know.

Taggert(sic) is, as every knows, Iain McKie.

I hate to be pedantic but you really ask for it!
It's Taggart, so please don't criticise again me if I misspell your name as Charlaton!!!!

[charlton97]

Sometimes I am depressed for the state of the standard of debate on this forum. I am not even going to rise to the low comments made by Dak, it is just sad. All I can hope is that others on this forum not fall into the trap of engaging in banter with this person who clearly has no interest in discussion, lively or otherwise, but is rather driven by other motives for a continual effort to publicly ridicule or rubbish others. How sad.

[charlton97]

Digit is probably Robert Doik, who spoke against Fiona's appointment as you well know.

Actually this is news to me and no, I didn't know this. But thanks for the heads up.

[charlton97]

Digit is probably Robert Doik, who spoke against Fiona's appointment as you well know.

Since I didn't know this, and since this revelation comes from Dak, one must assume that Dak either has insiders feeding information from the Fingerprint Society committee (not even the former editor got that insight!), or he/she sits on the committee in any event. This would tend to support certain theories about the identity of Dak maybe?

All in all, this is quite revealing.

[David Fairhurst]

... I left a few years ago, and most people I know left in disgust last year...

digit
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 2:07 pm
Location: scotland

Two things here.

Robert Doak is Secretary of The Society. Clearly he didn't leave a few years ago.
From his Bio on The Soceity's website, Robert is based in Hull, not Scotland.

The evidence does not support daktari's guess that

Digit(sic) is probably Robert Doik(sic)

[Daktari]

Digit(sic) is probably Robert Doik(sic)

No, no, David.
I was thinking of Robert Doik who served in the CID along with Iain MacKie.
Robert and his brother Glenn opened a garden centre called Dig It! (outskirts of Perth I believe).
They specialised in growing herbs. Finding he had too much time on his hands Robert diversified into the music business and opened a record shop in the West End of Glasgow also called Dig It!
Older readers may remember the restrictions on DOS file names
(i.e. no spaces or hyphens and restricted to eight characters.) which forced Robert into shortening
Robert-at-Dig-It! into digitbob.
I hope this clarifies things.
Oh,I should add, it is normal practice to capitalise the first word in a sentence.