Fingerprint Society new proposals

[Michele]

I just received some ballots in the mail for 4 new proposals by the Fingerprint Society.

1) Changing the name so it's not a society for just one discipline
2) Changing the structure of membership (for membership levels)
3) Change the structure of committees (to incorporate other disciplines)
4) Change the editorial format of their journal

I personally like the idea of having organizations that are specific to a single discipline. I wish there was one closer to where I live. When organizations become so broad then less of the information pertains to me. I was just talking to someone about this the other day with regard to local IAI division conferences. Understandably, they try to incorporate presentations from different disciplines and different aspects of those disciplines (crime scene, footwear, blood spatter, painting with light, HDR Photography, latent prints, tenprints, clandestine labs, tire tracks, case studies, entomology, etc). Once the agenda is complete, it seems like only a few presentations are within my scope and it might not be worth it for me to attend the conference. The variety is nice and interesting but I also have to be able to convince my agency that the majority of the training pertains to my work (which isn’t easy to do).

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[Kathy Saviers]

As to the concept of a broader scope of lectures and workshops at conferences, for those of us who wear more than one hat, it's a godsend. Maybe forensic folks working in really large agencies only perform one function. For the majority of us, we have to be jacks-of-all-trades and know something about everything.

While I'm a Certified Latent Print Examiner, I'm also a Certified Senior Crime Scene Analyst. I cast shoeprints, I collect DNA evidence, and I process evidence for latent prints in the field and in the lab, among other things. I also compare latent prints, photograph them, and search them through my Cogent AFIS. I do tenprint functions because I get copies of the fingerprint cards from the jail.

My agency certainly couldn't afford to send me to conferences for all the individual functions I do, i.e., crime scene, footwear, photography, latent print processing, latent print comparison, AFIS, tenprint, courtroom testimony, etc. That's why I enjoy attending the IAI and the local division IAI conferences. They have something of interest for everything I do.

I began my career during the dark ages of law enforcement where women had to be twice as educated/trained to be considered half as good as a male employee. I knew I would change agencies over my lifetime so I wanted to know enough about everything that I could get a job in any small to medium sized agency and perform all the functions needed. If you specialize in one thing, you might be limiting yourself to employment in really large agencies where people only have one duty.

Kathy

[josher89]

In Nebrsaka, we try and change our local conference up every year. For example, we had Pat Wertheim in 2010 and he gave several lectures on fingerprints. The previous year, we had more crime scene-based training. This coming year, it will be more crime scene-based training. We have been running in to the same problem with wanting to host a variety of classes/training seminars, but making sure that the instructors have a full class is always a challenge. We also like to rely on local talent and save some expenditures on paying for bigger-named folks (airfare, hotels, etc.) but we could also run in to the problem of having the same lectures ever other year or so.

In South Dakota this year, they are having a two-and-a-half day conference entirely on Computer Forensics; a good idea especially if you are in to that. It would be nice to have two conferences every year, like the Chesapeake Bay Division IAI, or Iowa IAI (although I've never been, it seems like they have a more topic-focused training) that way, you can offer two different things in the same year...you'd be able to attend the training and not get glassy-eyed over things that don't interest you.

It's always a work in progress, I guess.

[Darrell Klasey]

I'm not a member/fellow of the Fingerprint Society, so I won't comment on their changes. However, let me add my two cents on your other issue: state/regional division conferences of the IAI. I am the Speakers Program Chair for the California State Division. Our 2011 trtaining seminar will be held in Napa on May 16-20. This will be the first time in division history that we are putting on a 40-hour seminar. With five days to fill, I am looking for variety. Even in hard economic times like these, it will be easier to fill seats if the program includes more than fingerprint lectures. Many of my peers in California, as perhaps with your peers, are generalists/ID techs/evidence techs. So a balanced program is useful to them. The ones who "suffer" are those like me, specialists who do AFIS, latent comparisons and lab processing only. But I enjoy the occasional lecture about shoe prints or bugs, so that I keep the big picture in mind. In fact, without spending a ton of money to bring in speakers from all over the country, I would be hard pressed to fill a 40-hour program with just fingerprint lectures. But I understand your point, Michelle.

Darrell

CSD-IAI 2011 Seminar in Napa (wine country north of San Francisco) - 40 hours and the workshops are free. Check out http://www.csdiai.net

[Michele]

I suppose the type of presentations offered has to be related to the needs of people in the area and the number of people. It seems like the California Division has enough attendance to accommodate several different disciplines. I was really thinking of areas that get much smaller attendance where there’s not enough attendance to have more than one presentation at a time. In some areas the majority of investigators do everything but in other areas the majority of practitioners only practice one discipline.

If the demand for multiple topics is there then it’s valuable to provide presentations on a variety of topics. However, I don’t think offering multiple topics will automatically create the demand and increase attendance (or membership).

If the needs of the Fingerprint Society are changing then I suppose the Fingerprint Society should change too. I guess my real question is, have they determined that changes have taken place that are now requiring them to change?

I see value in having both types of organizations (some that are for general forensics and some that are specific to a discipline). I don’t think the Fingerprint Society is limited by being too specific. There are a lot of topics that overlap with other disciplines to give a wide variety of articles and presentations.

[Iain McKie]

I believe that the Fingerprint Society cannot regain any kind of credibility until it rids itself of senior members like Martin Leadbetter, Peter Swann and the Editor of its magazine Fiona McBride ‘who, in the face of world-wide opinion, continue to assert that the SCRO identifications of prints ‘Y7’ and ‘QI2 ‘are correct.

With the ‘Fingerprint Inquiry Scotland’ due to report next year any attempt at restructuring which leaves experts like these in place devalues the whole organisation and frankly the fingerprint profession.

There is little doubt that forensics in the UK would benefit from a representative organisation encompassing all the professions and not just fingerprinting.

The point is we have one, ‘The Forensic Science Society’

Membership of the FSSoc enables communication and collaboration with fellow practitioners and entitles you to a range of benefits. The Forensic Science Society is the main Professional Body for individuals working as forensic practitioners, academics, researchers and in related professions in the UK and is considered to be the 'international voice of forensic science'.
The most valued asset of the Society is our members, and we currently have over 2,000 members worldwide. However, we would like to welcome more forensic professionals / students / enthusiasts as members. The larger the pool of forensic expertise, the richer the communication and collaboration , thus leading to effective sharing of best practice and research findings and subsequent progression within the various fields of forensic science.
http://www.forensic-science-society.org.uk/membership

The ‘Fingerprint Society ‘unfortunately appears to be an organisation rooted in the past, tainted by a 14 year controversy and willing to allow itself to be used by a minority for their own ends.

Given evidence that true change is planned however I would be the first to support it and wish the ‘Society’ well.

[Michele]

Iain,

I don't think the SCRO situation devalues the fingerprint profession… although it may support the need for improvements (better research, training, procedures, standards, credentialing and better oversight).

I'm not even sure the SCRO situation devalues the Fingerprint Society, although I see a great attempt by some to try to make that happen. I don't see much of a link between the articles published by this organization (and the presentations given) and the people involved in the SCRO event. I know that some people are involved in both the FS and the SCRO but that doesn't mean that these people are a reflection of the entire organization and what it offers to practitioners. People that disagree maybe looking at an overly simplistic view. Regardless of the SCRO event, I value the FS and it's publication. I like having an organization that's specific to fingerprints because it means that the majority of the articles will pertain to my discipline.

Michele

[charlton97]

Martin Leadbetter....gone
Fiona McBride.......gone

Trying to change to a more scientific and academic society...yes

Do I support the new direction.....yes

Do I think the new direction will go some way to correct the history around the concerns raised by Iain and others...I think definitely.

We must give the new society a fair chance. I for one am prepared to buy in to the new culture of academic endeavour trying to be introduced that encourages peer review and continuous professional development.

I have been as critical as anyone over recent years.....but there is a change on the horizon. Well done Fingerprint Society for having the courage to change.

[Michele]

Dave,

More scientific and more academic are great goals... I guess I didn't recognize that changing the name and adding other disciplines would have that affect.

Also, I've never been good at seeing the real meaning behind statements so I appreciate you pointing out that when they say, "I'd like to change the name" they really mean "I'd like to exclude certain people".

These changes are sounding more political than a proactive means to improve.

[Iain McKie]

Hi Michele,

We will have to agree to differ about the impact of cases like the SCRO, Cowan’s and Mayfield in challenging the efficacy of fingerprints. Some choose to bury their heads in the sand while others, as you suggest, use these cases to, ‘support the need for improvements (better research, training, procedures, standards, credentialing and better oversight).’

I will reserve my judgement on ‘Fingerprint Society’ matters and while wishing them well in their deliberations about planned changes I will look for evidence that the destructive culture of arrogance and infallibility has finally been rooted out. This will challenge the reformers as those who wish to use the Society for their own ends will fight tooth and nail for the status quo.

I also look forward to the report of the ‘Fingerprint Inquiry Scotland’ and remain forever thankful for the experts across the world who stood up to be counted when they were really needed.

Best wishes,

Iain

[charlton97]

Michele, I hear you loud and clear....but I do not see the society becoming more exclusive..but rather...inclusive. The committee has a well balanced mix of practitioners, academics, managers and yes..the odd politician I am sure. But fair play, the old guard has moved on and the new regime have a very clear aims and ideals around introducing links between academics and practitioners, about providing real links between professional development and Police management. This process was a process that effectively made positions of some of the old guard untenable, and they fell by the way side. All the new incumbents want is some time and space to introduce these changes without the constant referral to the past. The series of lectures at the last conference was impressive as it was diverse....nobody could accuse the society of failure to address the big issues. You are right Michele, a change of name does not make for a new shiny society. But a change of culture, a change of perspective and a change of attitude by those at the society's helm seems to bode well for the future I think. I am prepared to give this a chance because some of the society effort as far as I can see is about trying to move the society toward more of a professional body, with clout, with balls and with the ability to shape competency assessments, oversee consistency and to develop CPD, all things which will aim to avoid the issues around the Mckie case so that such a thing never happens again. I say give them an even break...yes?

[Taggart]

Dave,

You informed us:

Martin Leadbetter....gone
Fiona McBride.......gone

Just to complete the picture can you confirm they have both left the actual Fingerprint Society, and not just left their positions on the Committee.

You also said:

But fair play, the old guard has moved on…..

Can you also confirm, given your comment, that both Robert Mackenzie and Peter Swann (both old guard) have also both now left the Fingerprint Society.

Thanks Dave, I too wish the ‘new’ Society the very best as they move forward without the baggage they have had to carry for so long.

[charlton97]

Fair do's Taggert...I don't know about left the Society for those you mention. My guess is probably no....but then I am not on the committee these days so I don't know.

[alsupremo]

I to have also just received my Fingerprint Society voting letter regarding the proposed changes. While Forensics and crime scene technicians are taking on many different disciplines I still feel that fingerprint identification in the main stay of this field. I've always been a proud member of the Fingerprint Society and have attended 3 lectures in Britain even though I practise in Canada and have stayed a member because of its main theme of fingerprints. While there are many Forensic and Identification Societies I feel the Fingerprint Society is distinct and unique. Please don't change. Should you just become another Forensic Organisation I'll be joining the IAI as they are well established and already offer what you are trying to become.

[fpsociety]

The Committee of the Fingerprint Society have been reading with interest the posting regarding the ballot which has taken place with the membership of the Society. I would like to first thank everyone for their interest and support. Just by way of background, the Committee has, for the last 2 years, been taking stock and thinking long and hard about the future of the Society, given both the economic challenges that we all face and the changing nature of policing and the police service that has been borne out of these challenges. As a result a full PESTELE analysis was conducted which looked at all aspects impinging on this. As a result a strategy was produced for moving forward which would not only maintain the financial stability of the Society but also address areas that we felt could be enhanced and provide greater benefits for our members.

The first thing we did was remind ourselves as to why the Society was originally set up which was pure and simply to be an educational society enabling members to network and exchange ideas. To advance this further, 18 months ago, we set up the Education Sub Group with some members of the Committee and representatives from NPIA Training. This group has introduced CPD seminars, has representatives on Skills for Justice work groups and has also been meeting with the Forensic Regulator. The aim is to support the NPIA national training programmes and to become involved with National Occupational Standards and ongoing competency testing of forensic human identification professionals in all areas of identification to assist with the acquisition of ISO and Forensic Regulator Accreditation. The information gained and lessons learnt from this could also benefit the profession in other countries and we aim to disseminate more details in due course.

The Education Sub Group is also now responsible for the production of the Fingerprint Society Journal. The objective is to make the Journal informative with regard to current affairs that relate to fingerprints and identification but also provide peer reviewed articles that inform, improve performance and provide members with CPD hours, without being overly academic. To this end we will, in partnership with Wiley Publishers, also provide book reviews in the journal. This partnership in return will allow all our members to purchase books published by Wiley at a 20% discount. This will assist members who are embarking on work related qualifications both through NPIA and other training/academic establishments within the UK and accross the world.

The changing nature of forensic departments, with an increase in multi skilling, particularly with Fingerprint Experts more and more taking on other mark identification skills such as footwear, gloves, tyres and tools, was felt to be the major reason for trying to increase the diversity of the membership slightly. We also want to recognise the important and valuable role that CSIs , Finger & Mark Laboratory staff and others play in the Fingerprint and Forensic Identification process, by enabling those that meet certain criteria to be recognised as experts in their field within the Society. As well as encouraging these professionals to join the Society we also wanted to nurture future experts by opening up the Society to University and other Students currently studying in this arena.

We have accepted that a certain amount of change is required and are currently taking our first steps forward. Our main objective is to keep listening to our members and other stakeholders to ensure that we continually improve. We want to provide a Society that is regarded by all as credible, in order to inform debate on behalf of our members and one that it is worthwhile being a part of.

We will continue to publish our progress on CLPEX, our website and also within Fingerprint Whorld. If in the meantime you would like to put forward any suggestions or comments please feel free to contact me or any member of the Committee.

Dr Karen Stow
President of the Fingerprint Society